tom meyer
(K=2752) - Comment Date 3/18/1999
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Lot Wouda
(K=34) - Comment Date 3/18/1999
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scroll down and pick up the discussion on contents again, if you like that.
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Chris Hawkins
(K=1508) - Comment Date 3/18/1999
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Lot: I couldn't find specifically to what you were referring?
The following quote from moderator Alan's "Quality of Discussion" post may be of interest....
"Perhaps contributors could ask two questions before making a post:
Am I making a point relevant to the philosophy of photography? Could my point be taken as an insult? "
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james mickelson
(K=7344) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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Sorry Howard and sorry Lot. I will try.
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Tony Rowlett
(K=1575) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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Wait, Chris. You can't have philosophical discussions without two things: 1) personality, and 2) beer. Many off=topic comments are made because some of us drink too much beer. Don't try to limit a forum like this to just meat and potatoes. Let's have some brocolli and asparagus and green beens, too.
and a beer, too.
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Howard Creech
(K=3161) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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Chris, I don't mean to be difficult, but I rather like the "wild west" element of this forum....the posters express not only their opinions, but often the reasoning, feeling, and stories behind those opinions...and yes there is from time to time a little rancor...but we are all big boys and there is going to be some strutting and tough talk. Seriously, I really like Allan's loose form of moderation...I believe it encourages a free exchange of ideas and feelings...often with a bit of passion thrown in (at no extra charge)I would hate to see this forum become as boring as most of the rest. We are, after all, photographers...stalwart individuals (not all of whom are completely house trained) We are not scientists or engineers...as a group, we don't function as a group...we operate as individuals. Don't restrict us too much, or you will kill the spark that makes this forum work. In two months time...we have covered a large number of topics, told dozens of personal stories, had numerous moral (but only a couple technical) disagreements, a few heated exchanges, and I think everyone has made a few new friends and considered at least one or two new ideas. I think we are doing just fine. I aknowledge that I am one of the "off topic" guilty parties..and I hope that I will be allowed to continue my evil ways...with the kind indulgence of the benevolent moderator, and the help and encouragement of several other guilty individuals, whom I will not name.
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John MacPherson
(K=1342) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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Sorry Chris, I agree with the herd here. I too am guilty of going off topic. However you can find out only so much about fellow posters by consideration of dry philosophical musings. As photographers we are creative individuals and I feel it is vital that there be a place for humour/rancour/emotion in this forum, so that we increase our awareness of the qualities each of us possess. Not to name names, but a recent heated discussion between two well-known participants which may have been judged to have gone slightly off-topic elicited very personal information from each which helped me to put their various comments in different threads into perspective. I found that INCREDIBLY valuable, and increased my estimation of both individuals. It also made me reconsider things I had previously taken for granted, ways I had worked without really considering why. We may never ever meet for "real" but we DO meet here, and I care enough about the people I choose to spend my time with, even cybertime, that I want to get to "know" them. A free exchange of humour can help in this, as can disagreement. But now to name names (I hope you are not offended Tribby?). Had the moderator chopped the Bobbsey Trib way back when this forum started, he would never have had the opportunity to get out of hell666 to become linhofman! And whatever YOUR opinion of him, I feel the Bobbsey one is passionate, honest and outspoken, and humorous. AND he makes good observations! But then - so do most other participants. I think this forum is successfully self-moderated as it stands. PS. since I started posting here I have left the gutter waaaaay be
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John MacPherson
(K=1342) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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That last post should have finished...... "PS. since I started posting here I have left the gutter waaaaay behind" But I guess not so far behind that I can work this computer properly........
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Chris Hawkins
(K=1508) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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Fair enough. Once again, I'm a little on the serious side. Let the wildness continue!
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Old Gray Beard
(K=162) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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... (not all of whom are completely house trained) ...
Hee hee hee. Howard, I'm trying to poddy train Trib but he's a tough pup to whup. ;-)
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Alan Gibson
(K=2734) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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Back in the early days, a very long time ago (less than two months, actually), I was much stricter. I clobbered posts that weren't related to the thread (Jim's post would have been removed), and threads that weren't related to the conference topic (this whole thread would have been removed). I nurtured the forum, and tried not to let it fall into the traps experienced by others.
But it was a full-time job. I don't have the time any more. And threads drift, inevitably, around and away from the original issue. Even if I wanted to remove 'off-topic' posts, they would be hard to pin-point.
I am still very wary of personal comments. Why? Because these might frighten off new readers. A new reader may not realise that Jim personally knows Blake (=Tribby), and may refrain from posting for fear of flack. I shouldn't permit any posts that appear to personally attack others (even if I believe offence won't be taken).
The regulars here do 'know' each other, and have developed a sort of banter. This is great, but I don't want it to exclude others. I don't want it to be too cliquey.
PS. Especially for Howard: there is only one 'l' in 'Alan'.
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Lot
(K=1558) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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Yes, Chris you are right on that one. I even once made a post myself which resembled your question. But I got used to the fact that there's foam on the beer.
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Lot
(K=1558) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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And discovered that I like beer better with foam on it than without it. I don't think we've got nothing to drink here and bite in the foam only.
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Howard Creech
(K=3161) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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Trib
(K=2701) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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He's the boss...I never grow weary of that stuff, Beauty to me really is that the little things mean more. The simple, the personal, the clutter is what defines us as individuals. I said at the start of this phorum that we should indulge in what differentiates us. Not just how we all will miss Callahan but the personal ways. Not just that Creech and Swine (The original Bobbsey twins IHOP) like Arbus and "t" doesn't but the very personal off-topic ways that makes their debate crackle. This is not a funhouse and it's not the ninth superstring dimension either, I treat it like my favorite pub. A place to go get a little silly, maybe scuffle and meet some new folks and talk to them like I can't do at home. So I'll bite my forked toungue for the sake of making more friends but there is a price....being pretty cool...instead of gutter-cool. Tony, lets go get that beer!
p.s. Chris I look forward to becoming your friend, I've made fast friends already with James Mickelson a true artist of trust. He sent me a beautiful and powerful rainbow obsidian spear point that he had fashioned with his own hands as a gift. It was a simple object sent for simple reasons but that gift did a very complex overhaul of my mistrust. If you'll send me your mailing address via private email I will make amends and try to be a little more like James, because you need this pub just like me.
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Chris Hawkins
(K=1508) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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Trib: I also look forward to becoming your friend. I'm certain we've both got stories which would blow the average person's mind. I very much enjoy our intellectual debates. The rough & tumble of e- mail can be helpful in fleshing out various positions and one of the things I value is having flaws my logic or facts brought to my attention. It helps me prepare for my next debate. You are right, I do need and enjoy this "pub." "Peaceful Chris"
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mark lindsey
(K=1720) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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this is so special and touchy feely, I feel group hugs shooting out of my ass! :)
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tom meyer
(K=2752) - Comment Date 3/19/1999
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It's nice to know we can always count on you for some positive input, Mark, grease up and come on in...t
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Howard Creech
(K=3161) - Comment Date 3/20/1999
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Trib, in the interest of accuracy, I have yet to comment on whether or not I like Ms. Arbus...I don't, I see her "serious" (as opposed to "commercial") photography as pedestrian...but lacking the charm of other pedestrian photographers (Eve Arnold) and I think she failed to hit the mark with whatever it was that she was trying to do...Mr. Callahan, on the other hand, had a genuine talent for reducing the visual landscape to it's simplest elements...sort of like showing the "design" inherent in everyday life...as for Steve and I, my view would lean more toward Larry & Curly for the two of us than the Bobbsey Twins. Could we put a picture of Groucho Marx behind the bar?
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John MacPherson
(K=1342) - Comment Date 3/20/1999
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Howard .....oh Howard.....you have just dragged this thread on "off topic comments" waaay off topic with your last (and eminently sagacious, if I may be so complimentary) post. I hope this WILL be a habit :-)
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james mickelson
(K=7344) - Comment Date 3/20/1999
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Oh Mark.! You devil, you! It feels together already.
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Steve Bingham
(K=384) - Comment Date 3/23/1999
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Off topic! Hell, my whole life is off topic. Give me a break. And maybe a beer.
Steve
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Steve Bingham
(K=384) - Comment Date 3/23/1999
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Gosh, and I want to be everybody's friend.
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steve
(K=1127) - Comment Date 3/23/1999
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Off topic comments? Off topic.... hmmm... Nope. Can't relate. Dragged into the gutter? Quick! Occupy the low ground while they head for the hills! And Tribby. My, my, my-- you're almost cuddly. Except of course for that little shark fin you're so adeptly hiding under your Flintstone jammies.
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Trib
(K=2701) - Comment Date 3/30/1999
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Chris, I hope to send it this weekend...you too Jimmy. Steve those are Brak pj's and you're seeing a smoking jacket fashioned from nicotrol patches not a shark fin but umm now that I think about it ....maybe time to make a fresh jacket...Hey!!! that's why I'm so jumpy ...no wonder, I'm not gettin enough "juice". Whadaya have Shooter? Mark those are regrets flying out of your ass, hugs don't hurt like that.
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