Keith Naylor
(K=13064) - Comment Date 11/24/2002
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Well I just bought myself a Canon Powershot S30 with a u/w housing. It's so new it's not even been wet ;-)
Can't wait to get the mask on and give it a try.
So I'm sorry I can't advise you yet !!
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Bob Jarman
(K=3145) - Comment Date 11/26/2002
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Nancy,
I have two options for you to consider, If you have a decent SLR, go to Ikelite.com and check out a housing for your existing camera. It wont cost you much more than a Nikonos V fully set up and youll will love the ikelite system.
I would also highy recommend you at least look at a digital camera and housing. Ikelite makes a housing/strobe set up for just about any digital camera you might own or want to buy. Digital cameras make super images of normal/wide angle and probably are the best for macro. The only downside is the shutter lag inherent in them. If you want to shoot sharks, or other large moving critters, go with a nikonos V or house your film camera.
Stick with Nikon if at all possible as they will allow for a direct connection to the hot show for TTL flash. Most of the others require you use manual strobes or use a sensor system.
If you would like, email me and I will be happy to anwer any other questions you might have.
Bob Jarman, Moderator
bjarman@wjmcorp.com
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sean slavin
(K=3488) - Comment Date 11/28/2002
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The Sea&Sea Motor Marine II is an excellent camera for the money underwater. It's a huge jump from the MX10. You can set the aperture and shutter speed as well as change lenses underwater. There is also a macro kit. They are getting ready to release a Motor Marine III which has a wider angle lens and several other improvements. They do sell both in a kit which comes with a Pelican case and a YS60 strobe.
The other option is to buy a housing for an SLR if you have one. My recommendation would be Sea&Sea housings. I wouldn't go for the Ikelite housings. They're a bit less expensive but they're made of plastic. At deeper depths you can actually see them bend.
You could also find a decent Nikonos setup on EBay but since they aren't being produced anymore, finding parts is going to be difficult.
My personal recommendation, if you're just getting started underwater, would be the Motor Marine II or III. They're way easy to use and being able to change lenses underwater is sooooo convenient. It's also much less expensive, even if you go for the kit, than buying a housing for a SLR.
Feel free to email me as well if you have more questions, sms@slavin.org
8)
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Nancy B Brannaman
(K=445) - Comment Date 2/9/2003
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Thank you, everyone, for the suggestions. I will look at the housings and the more advanced Sea & Sea Motor Marine cameras. I have a Canon A2 that I would love to take underwater with me.
Now, for my ship to come in, so I can buy a new camera!
-- nancy
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Bob Jarman
(K=3145) - Comment Date 2/12/2003
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Nancy,
I just bought a complete A2 housing. Ikelite makes one. If you want, email me at rkj674@yahoo.com and I will be happy to talk to you about it.
Remove the no spam. :)
Bob
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Paulo Gama
(K=5067) - Comment Date 4/1/2003
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Hi Nancy. I use a Nikon RS and I still have my old Nikonos V which I really like a lot. I don't have any experience with housing for photos just for video. In this case I use a Sony.
Rgds :-)
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Melissa Milligan
(K=549) - Comment Date 4/22/2003
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Hi Nancy. Don't slam me, as I'm speaking from experience here, but I hate to say it: 99% of the "out of focus problems" I see are user error.
As you already know - photographic underwater ain't no picnic! And it does take a lot of getting used to.
I use a rangefinder (Nikonos V), and it took me quite a while (like a YEAR and hundreds of rolls of film!) to get completely used to the magnification factor underwater - you know, everything looks closer than they appear.
One of my dive buddies has a chronic problem with out of focus errors...which are just a case of being too far away from the subject, or setting the focal length incorrectly.
Are your focus errors mostly on closeups?
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Melissa Milligan
(K=549) - Comment Date 4/22/2003
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Also - contrary to popular belief, there are several digital cameras that don't have the shutter lag problem - namely those upper end cameras in the Nikon line. The D100 being the least expensive at around $1900 retail, not including lens.
However, the drawback to being able to snap away with these digital cameras is that you do not and can not compose through the LCD...you have to use the viewfinder.
But you do see your results immediately.
If you decide to do digital and want to shoot action sequences, my suggestion is to do what everyone else does who gets a camera with shutter lag. Practice, get to know the shutter's lag time so that you can anticipate the shot and shoot 'before' it happens. Then pray. :-)
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Bob Jarman
(K=3145) - Comment Date 4/29/2003
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Very true Melissa, the top of the line digital SLR's have virtually no shutter lag amongst many other very big advantages.
On the other hand, and this is coming from someone who shoots nothing but digital topside, there are disadvantages to digital underwater:
1: With the exception of the Fuji, there currently are no digital slr's that will allow for TTL flash that I am aware of. You have to use a sensor system.
2: Digital has a terrible time with backlit sun shots and blown out highlights. In my opinion they just don't look natural.
3: Cost is significantly higher for a good digital set up and housing than for a comparable film system.
I am probably one the biggest digital fans in usefilm, but I still shoot film underwater, I still think its better at the moment. That said, it wont be for long!
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Melissa Milligan
(K=549) - Comment Date 4/30/2003
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Well, I wouldn't know about TTL with lower end digitals, but the Nikon D100 does have TTL - since it's a housed land camera.
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Melissa Milligan
(K=549) - Comment Date 4/30/2003
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One other point, the D100 (as with all in the D series) has NO shutter lag and can shoot in continuous servo mode at 1/4000.
Of course, as with all digitals, you still have to deal with the buffer and write time, so you're not gonna rattle off 100 shots at that speed. But you can probably get at least 4 or 5 (maybe more, depending on the resolution you're shooting and the speed of your CF card.)
Still, it's a far cry better than 'shoot, wait, look, swear, shoot again, etc.'.
Worked for me this weekend when covering the Annual Canoe & Kayak Races on the Charles River in Boston. Just need more memory (who doesn't?)
The others in Nikon's D series can shoot at 1/8000 (albeit at lower resolutions). And I haven't checked (cause I don't own one) but I seriously doubt they have housings for those monsters, as it's housing would probably be almost as big as an IMAX's. LOL!
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Bob Jarman
(K=3145) - Comment Date 5/1/2003
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I understand that the d100 has ttl, but it is Dttl. On the Canon it is Ettl. I am psotive that canon does not offer anny TTL mode except ETTL and to the best of my knowledge, the only option for syncing a strobe to this system and getting true TTL is an Ikelite DS series strobe and sensor.
The problem is, unlike film cameras which can shoot in ATTL, ETTL, TTL or manual, the digital bodies only offer manual and the advance modes.
If I am wrong, please tell me what strobe would work. From everything I have read, all the info I have gleaned from my dive friends and my photo pro at my shop, at this point in time this is a true statement.
I would love to find out its not true! What strobe system are you using Melissa?
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Jim F
(K=8859) - Comment Date 5/13/2003
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Out of focus..bad exposures...try to stay away from any auto settings. Get as wide angle lens as you can afford to reduce the amount of water between you and your subject. Remember the magnification of water, when estimating distances. Remember the three basics, get low, get close and shoot up.
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Melissa Milligan
(K=549) - Comment Date 5/22/2003
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Bob, on land, the D100 will shoot in TTL, Automatic, or manual when NOT using a digital strobe (like a Nikon SB28DX or SB80DX.) When using a digital strobe on land, you have the DTTL option, along with all the others.
I haven't read or seen or heard anywhere that you can't get TTL with a strobe on a housed digital camera. Perhaps that's true with lower-end digitals (smaller or point-and-shoot versions.)
But I can't imagine not having TTL on a Nikon housed D series. It would seem crazy, but it could be the case. It certainly wouldn't be the first time mfgs have gotten a product to market lacking functionality.
I'll check in with a few colleagues to see what they say.
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Melissa Milligan
(K=549) - Comment Date 5/22/2003
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Well, looks like the manufacturers ARE crazy, after all. I just couldn't believe they didn't have a digital UW strobe yet. I'll stick with my Nikonos V with TTL for awhile - until they get a DTTL UW strobe.
Fred Dion at Underwater Photo Tech in Derry NH:
"Most of the SLR digital cameras do not have a true TTL. TTL works by light bouncing of film and when there is enough light the camera sends a signal to the strobe to shut off. Since there is no film in a digital camera TTL does not work. What they do with a digital camera is send a short burst of light from the strobe and a sensor in the camera adjusts it's settings by reading this short light burst. The strobes we use with Nikonos cameras and other film cameras do not have the capability to do this.
We have been selling a strobe housing that Subal makes for Nikons SB 80DX. This allows the camera to do it's short burst thing which does give you TTL. I have been shooting the D100 in a Sea & Sea housing with out TTL and have found it to be very easy. The best thing about it is you get to see the shot you just took so if it's to light you close your f-stop or it's to dark you open up. It's very easy to do and you will get more keepers than if you shot a Nikonos on TTL. You can also shoot over a hundred pictures on one dive."
Also - I went on Sea & Sea's site and found that they now make a strobe (YS-90AUTO) that gives you auto control (set it to your camera's aperture.) http://www.seaandsea.com/YS90Auto.html
Still probably not TTL but more precise (or at least faster) than manual.
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Andreas Fischer
(K=33) - Comment Date 11/11/2003
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verry interesting thread
What about the new sea&sea digital camera?
Aqua Pix
is it already available?
I used to use a motormarine II ex
years ago
but now ,since i use a digital camera on land i d love to use a digital underwater too...and cause i take stereopictures i need 2 cameras... so its always a question of the prize too
2x d100 or 2x 10d i couldnt affort
otherwise i would have to use 2x motormarin II ex...but i realy dont like films anymore ;-)
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Dennis Wiener
(K=236) - Comment Date 11/21/2003
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A housed camera would give you a lot more options than the Nikonos. But the Nikonos is nice and compact and easy to travel with. Unfortunately the Nikonos has also been discontinued, but you could probably find one on Ebay. The thing to watch out for is that the camera has been properly maintained. Nikon recommends a yearly service to replace internal o-rings and generaly clean the camera. The camera is very resiliant. I've flooded mine twice, but it takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
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Bob Jarman
(K=3145) - Comment Date 11/22/2003
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I am not sure how you plan to carry two housings, but more power to you!
You might consider picking up a couple of old d30 or d60 cameras and some used housings. These cameras are getting rather cheap, and they still take great images.
Using a point and shoot digital will work just fine, but you we be faced with shutter lag.
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Dennis Wiener
(K=236) - Comment Date 11/22/2003
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Okay, re-reading your question, focus is one of your complaints on your current camera. One of the tricks I learned with my Nikonos (rangefinder) camera with its 35mm lens is to set my focus for around 3 feet, and keep my f stop do that my dof runs around 2 - 5 feet. I then try to get within arms legnth - about 3 feet - from my subject. Close up and macro is even easier as you have your framer for your subject matter. Also I'm not too familiar with the Sea and Sea. Is the strobe external or built into the camera. If built in than that might also cause back scatter problems from particles in the water. External strobes are much better.
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Andreas Fischer
(K=33) - Comment Date 11/23/2003
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@Bob...the 2 cameras i will need on a guide bar, i need them side by side fixed and shoot simultaniously...
thats not the problem...i do it on land it will work underwater too
the question is wich camera... 2 d30 would be something to think about
cause for my cameras olympus 2100 there are no housings available:-(
but im still verry interested in the new aquapix from sea and sea...just cant get any info here about it, yet
anyway..i would love it digital...specialy cause ill be staying in the tropics for about a year...and film develeopment and so on isnt quite good on a small island ;-)
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ken krishnan
(K=19102) - Comment Date 6/20/2004
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Bob, What is a shutter lag?
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Bob Jarman
(K=3145) - Comment Date 6/20/2004
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Ken,
Shutter lag is the time it takes from the moment you press the shutter until the time the shot is actually taken.
All cameras have shutter lag, but with a SLR the time is so short you barely would notice it.
Most digital P&S cameras have a fairly significant shutter lag time since they have to focus/meter/fire after you press the shutter release. This can be a problem if you are shooting moving fish.
If you do a search in wetpixel.com forums, you will find a lot of information on lag times. when I used a G2 underwater, I got in the habit of partially depressing the shutter release to activate the focus before I approached for the shot. It helps a lot.
Hope that helps
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ken krishnan
(K=19102) - Comment Date 7/18/2004
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