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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/6/2008
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Thanks a lot Sam!
I thought that a better focus on the front part of the leaf would be better.
Cheers!
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/6/2008
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The example of my "body" getting old and weak is really a hint for what I said. I am better than nature because I am more than body! Euclidian geometry has survived all kinds of "natural decay". I don't care about my body, I care about my brain that was able to create something against its own creator.
And don't mix up ontological and analytical arguments like you do by referring to the impossibility to capture something at all when there is no nature. In this case we would also not exist which takes this example ad absurdum. The fact that there must be a nature in order for the brain to exist doesn't imply at all any kind of consequence for capturing. Quite the contrary, if it says something then it says that brain overcomes the "given rules" and invalidates them. Nature does not make cameras. It needs a product of nature, our brain, in order to defeat nature. Don't think that this contradiction is something "bad". Actually it is what makes up a human.
About friendship, you nailed that very nicely. We can hope for that of course, but friendships are definitely not results of simply writing messages to each other. This is why I find this steady and permanent "my friend" in so many messages rather irritating. In UF everybody are "friends", you know. Still most people would readily send some real neighbor to Coventry, and so I have to wonder about all those ooohhh so friendly people in virtual space. How comes then that we have such an amount of conflicts of any kind in real space? Could it be that we project our dreams for yet another "paradise" to this virtual space? But I don't live in such dreams. I am here and now.
Cheers!
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/6/2008
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I guess that much more of this kind of conversation should happen here, Subhanjan, but unfortunately most people prefer to say... two lines of nice words, which then are displayed as "comments of the day" here. So, thanks a lot for the rich reply too!
Your teacher is indeed a very deeply thinking person. The example with Hitler is not the only one. So many "nature lovers", "arts lovers", whatever you could think of. But this is not at all preventing them to be of inhuman character. Picasso was both a great artist and also quite an as***le as a human being. We shouldn't make a "nice guy" out of him because of his artistic work. Still of course we can admire his artistic achievements.
The parallel to women is not a parallel at all. The law of the strongest is a natural thing. Most of the time the uga-uga hunter of the past was an imperator of the clan giving orders to others. And I don't take orders from anybody.
In nature the old and the weak have to die. Which was also one of Hitler's official plans. My girlfriend's mother wouldn't be taken care of because she is is old and ill. Nature doesn't protect the weak. It kills them! In nature there is no "love". This is what *we* project onto nature. Even dolphins which we find soooo sweet, join in groups and rape some girl of the family just for fun. It is *we* who think that our ways are valid also for that constructed paradise that never existed. Go tell a tiger something about "love" and "peace" of nature and all the other myths, and tell me what it said about that. In case it tears you to pieces I can't find that "beautiful". And the reason for that is that I, as a human being, proceeded to *more* than being under nature's commands.
But I described what I think of it in my previous message, not for "introducing" myself, but rather for not having to carry the cloth which you gave me. What you do is what you do, and if you find that good I am glad. But I am what I am, and I don't need to be pushed into that category. I don't care about nature and "paradises" whatever you might describe to me about them.
If you think that philosophy or science is a product of nature, then I must inform you that the very essence of it is *against* nature - and that's not a "feeling"! It is a mathematical theorem! Also simplicity/complexity is not a matter of personal impression but has a very tight mathematical definition which cannot be circumvented just because we "like" it.
- To be continued -
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/6/2008
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Thanks a lot, Indranil! I am not completely convinced but of course I am glad if you find it good as it is.
Cheers!
Nick
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Sam Kh
{K:19017} 10/3/2008
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the frame and nice details of the branches made a attractive image, Nick.
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/2/2008
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Thanks a lot for the extra generous comment, Sam.
What is "glamorous" on this one, though?
Cheers!
Nick
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Subhanjan Sengupta
{K:883} 10/1/2008
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Thank you Nick for drawing me into a rich conversation. I must appretiate your thought process. I myself do a 'little bit' of thinking and, in the process, become confused. But there is a lot in this world that is necessary to be pondered on.
Your example of Hitler is aptly given. The other day I made a remark like "He who is a lover of music is bound to be a nice human being". One of my teachers gave this example of Hitler and said, "Hitler loved a lot of music. Was he a good human?" (My sir is a very thoughtful and extremely well-read person; you may check out his blog: http://suvrobemused.blogspot.com/ ).
I did not quite get the parallel between love for Nature and keeping of women in kitchen and allowing them only to grow kids. When the words 'love' and 'Nature' come, the next thing that comes to mind is that the world would be impossible without these two things. Untill one has 'love' in his heart, and has 'deep' respect for Nature, one ruthlessly mutiliates the very things which helps him to exist and which he, sooner or later, exists for. I believe the beauty of Nature working inside a mother's womb elivens the beauty of the birth of a child. Mind it that I am saying 'enlivens', not 'defines'. Likewise, the beauty of a rainbow makes me feel optimistic that there is still a lot of beauty in this world no matter how much of the eco-system is being damaged every day. If the beauty of Nature was not to be celibrated, National Geographic would not have devoted several decades in the pursuit of the different beauties of Nature. One must not forget that a tornedo 'looks' beautiful. But the beauty is a vicious beauty. But still it is 'beauty'. In our Bengali Literature it is called, "bhoyonkor sundor", which means "dangerous beauty". And I must say that anyone in love with Nature will love his own wife and will not keep her in the kitchen. When I sit and contemplate on my beloved I can not help contemplating of the blue sky and the roaring waves of an ocean. I always feel that she is a miracle of Nature, and very much a part of the beauty of Nature. My heart will ache with hers. My heart will celebrate with hers. Just as my heart palpitates with the heart of my first love: Stars. I can almost feel it when I look at them in the dead of the night. It is a feeling I can not express.
And I DO NOT consider I am better than nature in all aspects. And I do NOT consider that A single philosophical study by Socrates is light years better than all nature taken together. There is not a work of art, or of philosophy, or of science that is not done by Nature. A single natural catastrophe teaches one all the philosphy that one must realise. A single waterfall or canyon or the changing colours of the canvas of the sky puts any great work of art to shame. The moment of Big Bang defines every bit of science that we know. We are NOT bigger than Nature. We are a minute part of it that tries to learn it or represent it. Where would you have been with your camera if there was nothing for you to capture with it? What use would a camera have had if Nature had not instilled in you the eyes or zeal to take nice pictures? What would you have done if Nature had provided you only Oxygen and food droping from Heaven and the entire space around your had been plane white or pitch black? What would have Mozart sung of and Wordsworth written of if Nature was inferior to man and had nothing to offer? Will you consider yourself superior to Nature when in old age your body will rot and will become weak and vulnerable to diseases and there would be absolutely nothing in your power to stop it? Think about it Nick.
And regarding what is simple and what is not, I must say that these are relative issues. Particle Physics is simple to a physicist, not to me. Again, the marvelous pattern of the veins of a leaf appears as a simple beauty to a layman like me, but is an issue of biological complications for a botanist. Similarly, spheres and cubes are not simple either. Some Problems of Mensuration can be demanding of a lot of brain work.
And regarding your opinion on 'friendship', I do agree with you. May be I should have said, "we might have known each other", rather than, "we might have been friends".
Regards,
Subhanjan.
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Indranil Ray
{K:2035} 10/1/2008
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I dont think so Nick. Front sode of the folded leaf looks good in out of focus. Excellent DOF :)
Cheers!
Indranil
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/1/2008
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Thanks a lot Dave!
Well the front side of that leaf could be in better focus, I guess.
Cheers!
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/1/2008
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Thanks a lot, Aziz!
Well, if only the front side of the folded leaf would be in focus too..
Cheers!
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/1/2008
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Thanks a lot again Indranil!
The front sode of that folded leaf... shouldn't that be in focus too?
Cheers!
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/1/2008
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Too much enthusiasm, ey? Well Subhanjan, first of all thanks a lot for the comment. You dodn't say anything about the image itself, but still I thank you. Now, let's have some more careful analysis of your statements - sometimes it is good to do that too.
These forms and things are neither simple nor easy nor anything like that. They are extremely complex. Simple is a cube or a sphere. This here is definitely not simple, and that's one of the strong criteria for differentiating between natural and artificial.
Then also... Well, Hitler loved nature too, very much so. Would you assume he loved the world? I must be really very astonished to see that such a naivity about all that "natural thing" still exists. Wake up! Nature is not some kind of altar that makes everything nice. It's no paradise of wishful thinking. Actually nature is a steady war! It is kill or be killed. If we love nature so much we should keep women in the kitchen and allow them only to grow up the kids. Many may like that but I hate that.
I am human! I am better than nature in all aspects! A single philosophical study by Socrates is light years better than all nature taken together. Because it separates products of brain from products of necessity. Which also means, in nature there would be no need for photography at all, ey? ;-) So, it is strange to see that photographers talk about nature with such an enthusiasm, as if it was some kind of holy grail. I spit on nature with delight! Nature only provides me with some good opportunities for study and for gaining some more skills, that's all.
As about friends... we should start getting such things with a bit more thinking. Surely it would be nice to be a friend of yours, Subhanjan, but as you said we are very far away from each other. You don't me, I don't know you. So, who knows? Perhaps you couldn't stand me at all. Friendship is a word that should be less easily spoken. So I see that. It is also something *against* nature, since the pure natural ways would imply to place the own needs above anything else. And that's not really the essence of friendship, I guess.
All the above to be taken with a corn of salt, but think about that if you like.
Cheers!
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 10/1/2008
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Many thanks again, Andre!
As already said, I hope to be able to preserve the right sequence. ;-)
Cheers!
Nick
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Sam Kh
{K:19017} 10/1/2008
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marvelous and glamorous
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Dave Stacey
{K:150877} 9/30/2008
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I like the dof, Nick, it makes the leaf and frosty branch stand out more.
Dave.
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aZiZ aBc
{K:28345} 9/30/2008
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So beautiful. DoF is pretty good.
H n H
Aziz
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Indranil Ray
{K:2035} 9/30/2008
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Nice winter scene with snow. Loving it. To me, DOF is fine Nick. I like the focus.
Cheers!
Indranil
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Subhanjan Sengupta
{K:883} 9/30/2008
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He who loves Nature loves the world. With eyes to notice such simple things and heart to keep a record of them makes you a delightful company. Alas I am thousands of kilometers away from you. If it had not been so, we might have been friends.
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Andre Denis
{K:66327} 9/30/2008
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And even further on in the march of time for this one.
An excellent series Nick!
Andre
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