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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 7/6/2006
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Hey Doyle, this was posted about 5 months ago, and since then I have noticed an increase in people leaving in-depth comments as well as being receptive to getting them,
Cheers,
Chris
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Doyle D. Chastain
{K:101119} 7/6/2006
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Chris . . . you might want to tweak the brightness / contrast just a tad . . . and the symetrical composition is a bit static too . . . I'd throw it off-center to make it more dynamic if it were my shot. Also a 1-2mm black frame might help define the image better.
Comment quality and quantity improvement must come with time....and by setting the example. It can't be forced. Clearly, since the upgrade, it's going to be a re-building in a way . . . and these things take time.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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AJ Miller
{K:49168} 7/6/2006
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"The staff could set the tenor for critiques by maybe explaining why awards are made and maybe what someone might have done differently."
Steve - a belated response: I totally agree with this as sometimes I look at awarded images and wonder why the award has been made. Maybe a little commentary explaining what it was that caught the staff attention would help me understand and help me learn!
John
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Paul Lara
{K:88111} 5/25/2006
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Well, ya know...a little austere, but this image could sell as abstract art, if it was in a cool frame. ;)
Yeah, I'm happy to see comments finally begin to pick up.
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NN
{K:26787} 3/18/2006
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I have noticed just a slight decrease in the number of received comments after the upgrade. The fact is that TOO many excellent and active members left for warmer climates, so to say. Some of them have left an empty portfolio - I´ve often thought of how easy it is to destroy but hard to build up. I think of UF as a partner (in sickness and in health ... :)) and intend to stay loyal!
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Steve Aronoff
{K:18393} 3/18/2006
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Well, there's certainly no lack of comments on this photo. I agree that the upgrade wasn't handled smoothly. There wasn't frequent enough communication about what was happening. I do tend to think, however, that those who left during the upgrade had too short an attention span.
I think part of the problem is that the site doesn't organize itself as well as it might. I find, for example, that fairly often my photos don't fit neatly into any of the categories available, nor into the projects. And, if I'm having that problem, I can't imagine that a lot of others aren't having it as well. I mean, c'mon, "Fall Color 2001"! I don't even remember 2001.
Another organizational problem exists, I think, with the home page. "Patterns in Nature" appears to be the Photoproject of the Month every month. And even then the same photos often show up againg and again in that category. Also, awards are given to photos that are as much as two years old, maybe more. It's not that those photos aren't worth being recognized, but it does send a subtle message to new members that recent uploads have less value than maybe they should.
The issue of critiques is touchier because photos are often something into which we invest a lot of emotions. We don't want to hurt someone else's feelings. I have tended only to comment on those photos that I like in one way or another, and even then in a rather cursory fashion, I hate to admit. This is in part because of the sheer volume of photos uploaded, but it's also in part because I've had some bad experiences with people who are only looking for validation.
Of course the flip side is that there are still a lot of fantastic photos being brought to the site, and a lot of fantastic people who care about others and their work.
So the final question is what to do about the problems. From my point of view a reorganization and broadening of categories and projects would be really useful. The staff could set the tenor for critiques by maybe explaining why awards are made and maybe what someone might have done differently. Maybe there should be an award for the best photo uploaded that day. I don't know. This is all off the top of my head. But one thing is certain to me is that it's a resource worth improving.
It's really nice to see the comments of all of you who obviously care.
Best wishes to you all,
Steve
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Khaled Mursi Hammoud
{K:54005} 2/21/2006
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Excellent idea Chris.... I noticed the same thing about comments and friends too.
I was away for a while and returned posting 1 week ago and noticed that lots of my friends are no longer posting photos on usefilm :0(
I don't know the coz but I miss them and at the same time I noticed the lack of intrest for commenting by other usefilmers !
I like this protest Chris, creative work my friend,
Khaled.
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Peta M
{K:170} 2/12/2006
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I'm only a very new member, so don't really know what the change is. However I've found in the week or so I've been here the comments have been invaluable. Especially by the likes of David Hoffman. I hope I am not seen as one of those 'new members' who are using the place to upload 'snapshots' as i have come here hoping to learn more about the craft of photography and have learnt SO much just looking through peoples portfolios and reading comments (not necessarily on my own photos either). I have made an effort to post a comment on any upload that catches my eye also. I wish I could have been here before so many of these valued photographers left. I would have loved to have had the chance to be inspired by them even moreso and to hear their thoughts. Hopefully I can find wherever they're hiding!
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David Hofmann
{K:22223} 2/11/2006
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Thanks Chris, you say what many of us are thinking. There are a couple of new features but the truth is that the process of the upgrade (with all its outages and bugs) and the outcome has driven away many good photographers, and it seems mostly those who have been very active. It is no wonder that those people who were active and involved here were those that got the most annoyed by the poor upgrade.
Its sad but I, too found a new home (online photo community) that I spend most time in, rather than here. Out of my original friends list, only 20% are still active.
The very poorly conduced upgrade that was ment to make usefilm more attractive has actually chased away its most valuable thing: the active photographers and bessed us with advertising banners. If it wasn't for a handful of photographers I really like I'd be gone.
I have to admit that I have seen a lot of excelent work lately here. Far less average snapshots than on other sites.
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a n n a
{K:1451} 2/10/2006
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Chris, if my brief experience yesterday is anything to go by, then I'd have to say that some folk just aren't looking for critique. It is admirable that you are encouraging more critique. However, I'm enclined to go elswhere. I've already inadverdently offended a member, and that's just in my first day commenting! Good luck.
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Michael Fox
{K:3180} 2/9/2006
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Sorry for the double post. My machine froze after I had pressed the "Submit" button, so I hit refresh . . . I hate it when that happens!
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Michael Fox
{K:3180} 2/9/2006
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Chris Hunter wrote: "...and we all know no image is perfect, so critique from the heart - respectfully let people know what you think could be done to improve on their work. If this happened more, than people will learn to distance themselves from their work and see possible improvements in style and techniques."
Chris -- May I say, Amen! Since joining UseFilm, I have become the poster child for your above point! At first it was difficult (I was too emotionally connected to my "good" ones). Of late, however, I have been quietly rethinking my technique/style/subjects based on three things I've gained here at UseFilm: 1) learning from the sincere comments of others who have sought to genuinely guide me; 2) the many wonderful images posted by others for my deliberate study; and 3) the education I have gained as I commit my observations to words in commenting on others' images. To leave a sincere comment requires me to think more deeply about what I like in an image, and why -- this benefits me, too. I have learned almost as much from the study and comments I've made on other's images as from those comments others have made on my images. Further, although I'm not sure what it's used for, I will frequently use the "Rate Comment" button on comments made to me. If I find someone has gone out of their way to offer a quality comment, I use the "Rate" button to let the world know. This in an attempt to reward/encourage them to always leave quality comments across UseFilm. So, simply said, I want to add my voice to the chorus and offer this thought: like any community, the UseFilm community is defined by its members.
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Michael Fox
{K:3180} 2/9/2006
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Chris Hunter wrote: "...and we all know no image is perfect, so critique from the heart - respectfully let people know what you think could be done to improve on their work. If this happened more, than people will learn to distance themselves from their work and see possible improvements in style and techniques."
Chris -- May I say, Amen! Since joining UseFilm, I have become the poster child for your above point! At first it was difficult (I was too emotionally connected to my "good" ones). Of late, however, I have been quietly rethinking my technique/style/subjects based on three things I've gained here at UseFilm: 1) learning from the sincere comments of others who have sought to genuinely guide me; 2) the many wonderful images posted by others for my deliberate study; and 3) the education I have gained as I commit my observations to words in commenting on others' images. To leave a sincere comment requires me to think more deeply about what I like in an image, and why -- this benefits me, too. I have learned almost as much from the study and comments I've made on other's images as from those comments others have made on my images. Further, although I'm not sure what it's used for, I will frequently use the "Rate Comment" button on comments made to me. If I find someone has gone out of their way to offer a quality comment, I use the "Rate" button to let the world know. This in an attempt to reward/encourage them to always leave quality comments across UseFilm. So, simply said, I want to add my voice to the chorus and offer this thought: like any community, the UseFilm community is defined by its members.
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david henderson
{K:16659} 2/8/2006
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....and the un percePtive an'all!! love d.
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david henderson
{K:16659} 2/8/2006
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Chris, this shot does much to fire the imagination of the keen student,
the none too obvious nuances,
a subtle underlying theme
struggling to emerge from the nullity,
innocently engendering a sense of?
....complete worthlessness,
impalpable to the un-educated,
deeply disturbing to the un-percetive.....
.....need I go on! liked your message, was thinking that if 9000 people lived in my place and I wanted to rennovate I would be delighted if they all went out for a while? cheers y'all. david.
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Caterina Berimballi
{K:27299} 2/8/2006
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Totally support your efforts here Chris. My habits are similar to those of Saeed, in that I tend to comment on friends then associates followed by random images if time permits. I've always believed that if one has time to upload a photo (or four) then one has time for commenting. Simple.
I've also come across a similar push by Daniel Shmidtka(?). He's cleverly seeking out members with loads of images in their portfolio but low Karma points and gently (and politely) encourages them to share their knowledge and/or experience with other members by commenting more.
Great stuff you guys. Hope this makes an impact.
Cheers
Rina
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Brian Fillmore
{K:4016} 2/8/2006
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Great colours, detail and composition. Reminds me of a snow storm back in 1987 I had the pleasure to expierence in western Canada.
You do have a point either the winter has dragged on for too many. Or a lack of sunshine has caused a terrible boredom that people have become shut-ins unable to venture outdoors.
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Bill Voizin
{K:78} 2/7/2006
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You are right Chris. I find it very hard to offer any constructive critiques because I myself am an amateur. Can only offer an "ataboy" to those I really like but cannot break it down as to why. But will try, as you suggest, to give at least two or three per photo uploaded. Thanks for the wake up call! Regards--Bill Voizin
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luis pereira
{K:26013} 2/7/2006
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You had me going for a minute...or maybe two. I thought you posted one of those "minimal nature shots" and I kept waiting for the image to load. You're right...there's something different about the site but I still enjoy it. Take care.
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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 2/7/2006
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No worries Flavio...we should comment for no other reason than to help others to improve their photography...this is my primary reason.
As a by-product of people commenting more to help improve and critique others, there will be an overall increase in the number of comments on a site wide level.
Basically, I want to see more participation, whether it's a "How'd you get these results?" type question, a "Wow, nice shot" comment or a total top to bottom front to back critique on every aspect of the image...they all help increase interaction between members, and develope skills and learning of the trade.
Regards,
Chris
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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 2/7/2006
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I agree Saeed, but I feel alittle bit troubled when there are dozens of images uploaded an hour, and they all have an average of 0-5 views and 0-2 comments...we have basically pages and pages of photos with little or no views or comments... but many, many photos uploaded every hour....logic would say the people that are uploading are the smae people not commenting or viewing others work...it seems to kind of a circle of uploading and not viewing others work.
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Flávio Borges
{K:305} 2/7/2006
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Dear Chris,
Sorry if I don't understand your message, but...
Why comment? To get an aggressive answer? or To get no answer?
Regards,
Flavio
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Saeed Al Shamsi
{K:47735} 2/7/2006
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Good warning Chris, every one noticed that, but its a delicate issue many photographers are sensitive to critiques and prefer friendly comments, I my self after seeing no exchange in critiques, I start with my friends then associates and if I have a spare time I check new member or who needs a help.
Even though with some associates it’s hard to keep up with 4 images daily! it certainly UF became a storage site.
I was laughing the other day I’ve counted more than 10 comments from the same person with identical words in deferent photos just to get comments back on his/her image.
Other reason many joined other site while UF closed for upgrade, and still have both accounts active.
After upgrading am not worrying that much on the comments, but actually I will be if number of visitors is less than I had before.
Saeed
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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 2/7/2006
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"Incidentally, one of the sites lets you upload images on the basis of the number of comments you leave."
Good idea - even if this was done for, say, 2 months it would give people an idea of what things could be like...and poeple overall would receive more comments, and give more - proving the point.
Cheers,
Chris
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AJ Miller
{K:49168} 2/7/2006
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Stunning shot, but why oh why did you put it in that awful frame? Let the image speak for itself!
During the upgrade I had a look round various other sites and certainly found that on several the critiques could be much more critical (but nevertheless constructive) than those typically left on UF. I am now trying to be equally constructive with my own comments, pointing out anything that I think might improve the image, however small and however good the image is already. This, surely, should be why we are posting images here... Of course, a good image should still be complimented.
Incidentally, one of the sites lets you upload images on the basis of the number of comments you leave, so unless you are a paid up member you really have to work at it.
John
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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 2/7/2006
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Sorry, Karl - I mistyped your first name there.
C
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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 2/7/2006
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Exactly Jarl, often even the comments that are given can be quite sterile...and we all know no image is perfect, so critique from the heart - respectfully let people know what you think could be done to improve on their work. If this happened more, than poeple will learn to distance themselves from their work and see possible improvments in style and techniques.
Cheers,
Chris
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Karl Steyn
{K:258} 2/7/2006
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Point taken - willing and eager to get as much information from here as possible, BUT, I will give my oppinions and even suggestions.
Love to meet other photographers.
Karl
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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 2/7/2006
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I think this is kind of a perfect example...everybody wants to GET comments...when ideally everybody should want to GIVE comments - that's KARMA - doing good things without expecting anything in return...if everyone left just 2-3 comments per day it would be a HUGE difference....or 2-3 comments for every photo you upload.
I don't think it is a massive problem right now, but that's the way it seems to be going...and if this thread can get a couple of people to comment more, than i think it's worth it.
Cheers all,
Chris
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Flávio Borges
{K:305} 2/7/2006
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I don't if it is missing, but I know that if you are not a donor the work to got a comment is really hard. What could I do to learn just a little with donors?
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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 2/7/2006
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Karl, you def. get it....the value of this site is huge, priceless even... but, I, along with alot of other people, are trying to make a conscience effort to let people know to comment, leave critiques, conversate, ask questions... this site is about sharing the information and knowledge BEHIND the photos...not just the images themselves.
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Ralf Denguth
{K:3353} 2/7/2006
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I agree Chris! And btw your picture is great! White eagle in front of a white background! Brilliant :-)....cheers, Ralf
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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 2/7/2006
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Hi painsama, this comment is really geared towards those who upload dozens of photos wihtout in turn commenting or viewing others photos as well....this site is built by it's admins, but the members are what make it what it is. If everyone just tried to leave, say 3 comments for every photo they upload things would be REALLY different.
Dave, I agree, there is a huge volume of photos uploaded everyday, which is directly realted to the number of new users...howver, the number of comments should be increasing as well...but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Karl Steyn
{K:258} 2/7/2006
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Fresh blood from South Africa. This site is like a gift - I use it to compare my work with all the other amazing shots on here.
The comments are usually possitive and I appreciate each and every one.
Thank you to all the people that take the time to help an aspiring photographer getting better each day.
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Dave Stacey
{K:150877} 2/7/2006
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Good one, Chris, there's usually SOMETHING you can say about a shot, although with the volume of images coming in, it's hard to keep up sometimes even with people you usually keep track of. It's more so now that you can have four uploads every day.
Dave.
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davide lupo-pasini
{K:8079} 2/7/2006
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wonderful shot, Chris!
a perfect high-key , great bokeh!
specially, i love the details
and the composition look really cute!!!
eheheheh... jokes apart....
since last Sunday, i've noticed that the users online, are almost doubled....
... but i wonder how is it possible, that comments are less than usual....
uhmmm...
Ciao
Davide
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painsama
{K:4902} 2/7/2006
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This site takes longer time to load after the upgrade. It may take quite sometime getting used to it. But afterall, it is still a very nice place.
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Chris Hunter
{K:25634} 2/7/2006
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I think alot of the problem Lorie is alot of newer members primarily consider UF a place to share photos and not a place to give and receive CRITIQUES.... which I wouild consider the main purpose of UF.
Everybody wants to receive views and comments, but you have to give to receive sometimes //// so this is my part to let everyone know, whether a new member or old, let's really try to improve the number and quality of our critiques/comments...atleast give 1 comment for every photo uploaded.
C
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Chris Boivin
{K:9030} 2/7/2006
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Agreed! I have been thinking the same thing lately.
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Laurie Gould
{K:11942} 2/7/2006
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I've noticed a lack of comments as of late. I think a lot of people left during the upgrade. I know that many of my friends are no longer on the site. I'm just trying to stick with it and hope that things will pick up again.
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